Challenge South West

rick1692 · Last edited by rick1692 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

Well, the MSA have really upset the applecart now! Last year, there was a demand for MSA scrutineers to attend all Challenge events, which was deferred for a year but will no doubt come back. There is also the question of roll cages, traybacks and tubular wings which we know may well be raised next year. More immediately, they have demanded that all drivers have MSA competition licences or we will not be issued a permit or be covered for insurance. We are looking at other insurance quotes, and expect that this will be more expensive per event (probably in excess of £10 per event). However at least we will be able to decide how we run our own club without having unreasonable demands made on us.

Please vote on this poll ASAP

Jake · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject:

If the cost rises by £10 an event that would still be cheaper than the medical and licence per year.
Vote cast
Smile

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Devon 4x4 Off Road Team

mr alford · Joined: 16 Jun 2009 Posts: 155 : Location: Plymouth Items

Granite-Hopper · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject:

If you can become independant it would give the club more flexibility.....

milky · Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 7 : Items

There are pro's and con's

Be indepentant, Pay £10+ extra for each event for insurance, do what we like, but end up paying perhaps £50+ over the year for insurance and then also pay the £23 MSA license if you want to compete elsewhere

Stay with the MSA pay the £23 license but have to abideby all thier rules but be able to compete anywhere,

Sorry I'm on the fence.....

You don't necessarily have to have a medical

Eddie

rick1692 · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject:

I think the question is rather more now than the imposition of competitor licences. This is merely the latest in a string of worries from the MSA. There have been the queries regarding the following:

- MSA scrutineers being at every event (got rid of that for a year)

- Roll cages - do we need them - and if we have them do they need to comply to MSA spec?

- Traybacks (not covering the driving wheels properly)

- tubular wing attachments (welded to the rollcage which must be dangerous - mustn't it?)

And then there's the need to apply for permission to run an event, and the post event paperwork.

All this for cheaper insurance and the right to play with the MSA Confused

Oh yes - and, Eddie you are correct, a medical is NOT required for the licence level we need (Cross country non-race Clubman). You need to supply your doctors name and answer some questions etc but you only need a medical if any of the following are true:
Are you
– applying for an international licence?
– aged 45 or more and applying for a race, truck or kart race licence?
– over 18, applying for a race, truck or kart race licence (see note H 9-12) and have never provided a medical report before?

Clearly, none of the above are true so no medical is necessary.

Muddy90 · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject:

I voted no primarily because I thought the msa have something to offer, without reading through some of the pro's & con's. Now I'm not sure. Can I change my vote Rolling Eyes

I think they really haven't thought this through.
I'm really pissed off about this & as Chairman of Dorset Land Rover club I shall be talking to my comp sec tommorrow & the msa shortly after to tell them what I think Evil or Very Mad

Now we won't be able to hold club challenges any more, ok we didn't do many (last over a year ago!) but now we're really stuffed.
We need as many officals to tell them what a complete f**k up they've made of this. Ok, it's 23quid but some f**k notice would have been nice.
23quid in the grand scheme of things when you consider the cost of our trucks is nothing. I'm just angry about how they've handled this. Evil or Very Mad

Chris Pedlar · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject:

A strongly worded letter has been sent to Ian Davis this evening.

I currently think there will be further developments to this over the next few days.

Once we have ALL the facts I will call a committee meeting to discuss options and our way foreward. There are many factors to be considered here and we all need the opportunity to air our views what ever that may be.
Either way we should not rush into making knee jerk reactions before we have had time to fully investigate the facts and options before us.

Chris Pedlar
Chairman
Challeng South West
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4x4's big boys toys

JST · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 : Items

i've voted for independence again. i have stuck with it for this year again for the reasons that Rick has mentioned. Rick you have the details of who i insure with, same as ones sent last year.

there will be vehicle log books soon too i believe.

rick1692 · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject:

The new logbooks are all but ready for printing. We have the updated rules almost complete, the scrutineering records done, the waterproof paper bought and the folders produced. They are going to look really good - and if you get them muddy just take the entire book into the shower with you - the whole thing is almost indestructible (okay you can set fire to it)

rick1692 · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject:

Odd Limbs · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject:

Rick, I think James was refering to the fact that MSA will be enforcing vehicle log books soon.

James, CSW will be introducing vehicle log books soon (off our own backs) so that the individual scrutineers know what others have said about vehicles before (some people plead that they've not been told to fix something before, would you believe?!! Rolling Eyes

)

weeble · Joined: 01 Feb 2008 Posts: 45 : Location: Exmoor Items

As I see it the MSA are like a trade union.

Charge everbody to be part of it but do bugger all for the members apart from charge them a menbership fee and find "new things" to charge for in order to pay themselves a large fat salery. Its not the £23 for the licence I object to, but what will be next on their hit list?

Personally I say stay independant as long as possable.

oli · Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Posts: 46 : Items

i just feel that this is meant to be a hobby, and the fun is at risk of being taken away from it.

i know safety is important, and i'm not saying in anyway its not. i know its a little dearer, but it just seemed alot more straight forward and enjoyable before the worry/risk of having to answer to other powers.

just my 2 pence worth from someone who hopes the matter can be resolved and carry on enjoying.

milemarker type s · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:24 pm Post subject:

It is not necessarily just the £23 for a licence that I am objecting to- it is what the £23 actually gives me or the sport in return? To get a licence involves no test or indeed medical- How does this improve safety in any way??- it clearly doesnt. If drivers had to be declared fit or able to drive to a set standard then I could understand how safety may be improved.

It does however supply the MSA with £23 for each person who needs a licence- it would appear to simply be a way of them making money...

My biggest concern in the longer term is what next from the MSA- MSA scruitneers, MSA cages, MSA Helmets etc etc- don't get me wrong I am all for having the correct rules and regulations in the sport- however these need to be proportionate to the risk level.

It has been made very clear that the MSA have no idea what we actually do- yet are the ones pulling the strings with regard to the rules...

At this time the only Pro's I see from being with the MSA is cheaper insurance... I could list many many Cons...

The whole ethos of the club has been, and still is, to bring our beloved sport to those who want to get started- If you just want to have a go at a couple of events to see if you like it do wou want top pay for a licence, club membership, bring your vehicle up to full MSA spec etc etc just to find that it is not for you?