Imagery And Analysis

SOC · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject:

Updated the SAM Site Overview file with the new color scheme for the icons in the SAMs by country folder. Details are on the blog in the description of the file.

Also, if you post something here and don't see it added into the database right away, there's a reason for that. If I get anything in low resolution, I keep it in a separate file. The intent is to revisit these low resolution sites each time Google updates the imagery to see if they are covered in high resolution. That way I can see if they are occupied or not, and mark them accordingly, without having to go back and change them later on.

I did add the Bloodhound sites to the Historical SAM Sites section (only those that are still visible), but I'm still working on the Rapier sites.
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dsp_autocrosser · Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Posts: 43 : Items

It would be nice to know the locations of all the low resolution sites. Knowing where they are may help discover other sites - especially in the border areas where they were spaced at fairly regular intervals.

SOC · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject:

I'll see about adding a "low resolution" folder to the file in the next update.
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SOC · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:24 am Post subject:

SAM site file updated; low resolution site folder incorporated.
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RoAF · Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 137 : Items

Possible SA-3 site remnants at Bagram:

34.964401 69.277365

I found these two sites in western Iraq

34.315993 41.129627
34.341609 41.151862

and thought they are SA-3, but there are other SA-3 sites in the area with a different layout.
So maybe these two were built for SA-6?
Anyway, the whole area is full of various earthworks and many SAM / AAA sites.
What's the point, what did they protect? There is a relatively small facility located roughly in the center
of the SAM sites cluster, maybe it's an oil pumping station on top of an underground pipeline?

SOC · Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:50 am Post subject:

Those are AAA sites, there are tons of them around the country. These in particular are defending the Al Qaim nuke facility in the area.
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RoAF · Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 137 : Items

Hungarian EW site:
46.682013 21.015053
check the Panoramio picture for confirmation

SOC · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject:

Got it, I'll add it to the Low Resolution Sites folder for now. Got a pretty massive update I'm sorting through.
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Hpasp · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 51 : Location: Hungary Items

SOC · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:44 am Post subject:

Sure, list all of 'em. If they're still around I'll throw them into the file with the next update.
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Hpasp · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 51 : Location: Hungary Items

I move this message to the Hungarian AD topic...

SOC · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:29 am Post subject:

I've updated the posting to include more of the contributors who have submitted sites for inclusion into the database. If I've left anyone out, let me know! I want to provide credit where it's due.

Also, I'm working on a companion document. I keep all of the SAM sites in an Excel spreadsheet. Currently I have a spreadsheet with eight columns:

-Country (obvious)
-System (either the SAM name or U/I for "other" sites...see below)
-O/U (occupied or unoccupied)
-H/L (high or low resolution)
-Coordinates (obvious)
-Date Observed (the most recent date I saved an image of the site)
-Notes (anything important, or the type of site if it's an U/I site, such as an EW site or a training range)
-Image (a simple Y or N to denote if I've saved an overhead image of the site)

I'm going to reprofile this a bit and make it available for download as well. It'll be an MS Office 2003 Excel file as I find Office 2007 to be a pain in my ass (the office upgraded to 2007 and it's constantly irritating), so if you haven't upgraded to the latest Office software don't worry (and consider yourself spared). I'm thinking about having a sheet for each continent, which you scroll through at the bottom. Maybe a file for each continent and a sheet for each nation, I haven't decided yet. I'll provide the following data for each site:

-Facility Type (I'll differentiate between SAMs and EW radars here, as well as garrisons and other facilities)
-Coordinates
-Equipment Present (i.e. number and types of radars, how many TELs, how many reloads, etc)
-Configuration (is it a field deployed S-300P, is it a standard FSU-type SA-2, etc)
-Date Last Observed (the date the site was last checked for any updates)
-Notes (anything important, such as co-location on a military facility, other systems present, etc)

This is prep work for taking the SAM site database and producing a large document complete with images of the sites, national overviews, and other data. I figured that this would make for an interesting document to share with everyone for the time being, so I'll add a link to download it when I've finished. Don't expect to see the huge document for a while though, that's going to take some serious time and work and will probably be produced in parts broken out by continent (with Russia and China being their own volumes).

If you have any suggestions related to the Excel file, such as other information you'd like to see highlighted, let me know. Up to now the SAM information has been used in relatively lightweight analysis focusing only on location and engagement ranges; this is where the heavyweight analysis comes in by focusing on key elements of each individual location.
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dsp_autocrosser · Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Posts: 43 : Items

You may already be doing this but you might want to list the coordinates of the sites and then list each type of system that has been in place at that site. The site coordinates never change but the types of systems sometimes do over time.

SA-2 / SA-5 sites being refurbished into S-300 sites is probably the best example.

I realize that it's impossible to tell at many locations if it started life as an SA-2 site but some are pretty obvious.

RoAF · Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 137 : Items

All this is very nice, but there is an issue hard to avoid:
Google Earth imagery obsolescence.
For example the SA-2 site here:
45.855675° 25.663260°
is obviously active, and labelled as such in the SAM file.
Imagery is from 06 February 2005.
The unit operating this SAM site was disbanded in October 2008 - see my detailed post here:
http://www.s188567700.online.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673&start=135

So in reality, now, it is empty. Also the SA-2 garrison, EW and SAM training center located to the south of it, near Brasov, no longer fulfill that role. All equipment will be scrapped - they already started in 2006 with more than 100 Volkhov 5Ia23 missiles dismantled...

RoAF · Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 137 : Items

Empty EW site:
45.229124 27.941570

SOC · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject:

You raise an excellent issue, but for the time being I'm going to concentrate on what I see in the imagery. If I tried to correlate over 3,000 sites with their actual operational status as of 2009, I'd have a fit!
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Planeman · Joined: 20 Sep 2008 Posts: 492 : Items

Minor typo correction on China. Site labelled "HQ-6" in the file should read "HQ-64". 30.503396°, 104.304814°

The small building in the photo isn't at that location so presumably there are at least two HQ-64 sites.

SOC · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:40 am Post subject:

From what I've read, the HQ-6 and HQ-64 designations are interchangeable. If they are meant to imply two different versions, I have no idea what the differences are.
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SOC · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject:

Here's a link to download an overview of what I'm working on insofar as the Worldwide SAM Site guidebook goes:

http://imintandanalysis.googlepages.com/AFRICA.doc

Feedback is appreciated. Note that the section for Algeria isn't complete, as the site information for each facility is not yet present. I'm also skeptical as to whether or not I'll actually take the time to annotate every site image. Probably not, because I do plan a site overview feature describing each type's site configuration in the first volume. The first volume will basically be the introduction to the whole mess, site configurations, and all of the relevant color schemes and iconography used in the graphics throughout the rest of the volumes. Inactive sites likely won't be shown in an image either, that'd take way too much work. After you see the active sites detailed there'll be a section listing the inactive sites, so that'll have to do.

Anyway, let me know what you think. Remember, this isn't a historical overview or a serious analysis of strategies or tactics, just a textual and graphic look at deployed SAM systems and their associated facilities. Producing it as an actual document will make for a pretty decent research tool for students and analysts, given that they'll actually be able to cite it as a reference source.

Once I've finished the Africa introduction and the rest of Algeria, I'll post an updated file so you can see what a representative entry for a given country will look like when it's complete.
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"Peace through kinetic solutions"